Teachers’ Take on Grading

Jessica Quenzer, E/P/F

As for grades, the following are my opinions and do not reflect the thoughts of any Stuyvesant faculty or admin:

Personally, I think number grades would be unfair this semester. The shutdown happened too early into marking period 2. I have not yet administered any tests or quizzes since due to the moratorium and AP Bio expectations currently in flux. If you haven't heard, the AP exams will now be only one or two open-book questions, 45 minutes total. Hence, trying to administer my usual style of exams at home is largely irrelevant to me. I have to completely change my assessments now. The lab grade component is gone for obvious reasons. This leaves classwork and homework, now the same thing. A highly weighted CW/HW grade is an inflated grade, and I don't think that is a fair or accurate reflection of the student's work over the semester.

I'm not crazy about E/S/N/U. I think right now, distinguishing S from N is too vague, while S is too broad. An N looks bad. An additional problem is that number grades and E/S/N/U are predicated on students and their families remaining healthy enough to do the work. So far, it seems that the majority of Stuyvesant got lucky; most of my students have been logging in and submitting. There are, however, those who cannot, and they should not be punished for their circumstances.

Hence, I think pass/fail is the fairest option right now. Perhaps it can be modified to E/P/F. E = A = 90 percent or more to acknowledge those who have been strong this whole time. While Pass is vague and uninformative, it won't hurt those under problematic circumstances. It looks better than an N or S.

I do understand the students hurt most by the shutdown are juniors, for whom grades are critical. I’m aware that an 88 student with a Pass could look the same as, for example, a 65 student. However, the problem right now, to me, is that I don't think I could accurately determine if that 65 student would have been able to pull up to a higher grade if the shutdown didn't happen. (In my experience, students with a 65 tend to finish higher by MP3. Meanwhile, those with 88 are more likely to stay at 88.)

Hence, in the case of juniors, a finer letter gradation may be preferable. Ideally, perhaps ninth, 10th, and 12th graders have E/P/F while 11th graders have a modified E/S/N/U where the S is broken up into smaller ranges. I don't think these should be converted into numbers to factor into the GPA. That still seems unfair.

Dr. Lisa Greenwald, Numerical AND Pass-Fail

I prefer a grading system that has not been officially suggested:

Right now in my five classes, I have many students who are doing very well in my online classes and some who have written to me that they appreciate many aspects of online learning. I also have a few students who are having difficulty—for a range of personal and/or circumstantial reasons. From anecdotal discussions with other teachers, I get the sense that they see a similar range of student experiences.

My system would be more like a university grading policy: numerical AND pass/fail. In other words, allow individual students to take any of their classes for a numerical grade or pass/fail. These are the many reasons why this system would work best:

It would satisfy the needs and desires of a range of students—some of whom are thriving academically with online learning and some who are struggling.

It would also allow all students to prioritize classes: in some, they might be thriving and want to achieve a high grade; in others, they might be having more difficulty because of a variety of factors. Pass/fail would take some of the pressure off.

This would help teachers for junior students who would like to write letters of recommendation and could laud students who forged ahead despite circumstances.

Numerical grades would be averaged into gradepoint averages; pass/fail would not. This would incentivize students to persevere at home and not hurt students who are having difficulty for whatever the reason—their gradepoint average from prior to school closure would be preserved.

This would make class ranking and overall gradepoint average—what the school and colleges use for academic measurement—consistent and meaningful with as little disruption as possible.

This would do the least harm to students’ college applications: as a guidance letter accompanies every college application, this letter could either point out how and why a student chose numerical grades or the extenuating circumstances for a student choosing P/F—or a combination of both. All these choices would have a richer context and authentic meaning in each individual application.

I think that this more sophisticated and nuanced system should be allowed and that the DOE should not stand in the way of our school doing what is best for all of its students.

Josina Dunkel, Pass-Fail

I personally have been strongly advocating for Pass/Fail. Is that surprising to you? This is a pandemic. Absolutely everything in our society has changed, and pressures that are on students and staff are overwhelming.

Eric Smith, Pass-Fail

As a school, our options may be limited by DOE policy, so my answer is based purely on a hypothetical situation.

I think the numerical grading system is silly in general, so I'm definitely opposed to numerical grading this semester. I don't believe there is any meaningful difference between a 94 and a 96 under normal circumstances, and even less so now. I can't fathom how I would legitimately and fairly make that distinction with remote learning. I think letter grades are fine as general qualitative descriptors of student performance, but I wouldn't want their numerical equivalents (E = 95, G = 85, S = 75, etc.) to be averaged into students' GPAs. There are so many variables that I think P/F is the best option.

Heather Huhn, E/S/N/U or Pass-Fail

From what I understand, the ESNU option that we did for marking period 1 and that we did for marking period 2 is not an option for marking period 3 [...]. [The DOE] wants you to basically transfer a letter grade into a numeric equivalent, and their range for those grades ESNU is not the same as the way that Stuyvesant has broken the range for those grades into. So honestly, if that were an option, that would be my preferred option—to just do the same ESNU that we’ve been doing for marking period 1, that we’re used to, and for marking period 2. But because that is not an option and the DOE has said that they’re not able to translate those into a grade that will work for us, then my preferred option is Pass/Fail. And I know there’s a lot of pros and cons to both sides, but I think the biggest reason I would choose Pass/Fail right now is that the other options are translated into a numeric equivalent anyway, and that would disproportionately affect those who are being most impacted by COVID-19 right now.

Eric Grossman, non-numerical grades, E/S/N/U

Sometimes there’s no fair solution. There’s simply the least unfair, and I think that’s the situation here. That said, if the DOE allows us to do what the school wants to do, I think the bulk of teachers and I would favor non-numerical grades. Under the best of situations, before any of this, numerical grades can convey the veneer of absolute objectivity when my experience is that a lot more complex than that and that grades can be standardized but that they don’t necessarily reflect mastery as much as hitting a certain number of marks in a certain number of ways. The stronger, more dedicated students are going to tend to do better, but grades are, if ever, wholly objective. Now especially, the idea that they represent some objective mastery of material feels ludicrous to me, and the idea that students are starting in the same boat and have the same access to resoucres and time, and for a million other reasons, I don’t think that number grades would do the job that they are supposed to do, and they would come farther from doing it than they usually do.

I see arguments for pass-fail. My experience as a teacher so far has been there are students, who have been such leaders, have risen to the challenges posed by this situation in such admirable ways that I would like some way to distinguish and acknowledge their efforts, compared to someone who may have been less visible, less present. That said, there are a lot of reasons that a student might not be as present online or might be struggling with work. I dont think that any S is going to hurt a student, and I think having some kind of way to incentivize engagement is probably a positive thing, but I am certain that most colleges are going to look at this semester as a wild anomaly. I know that there are students who are doing their best and have been consistently strong students and remain consistently strong students this semester, and I get their concerns about the way that moving to non-numerical grades might not capture their best efforts. If someone’s used to getting high A’s and all of the sudden there’s this raw category of E—or pass even—I can see why a student might feel that isn’t fair to them. But my sense is that even if you get an E or a Pass this semester, every other semester is going to show and reflect [what] you’ve done, and this isn’t going to interfere with that—it’s not gonna hold you back in anyway. This semester is going to be a wash across the country for everyone who is applying to college at the same time.

I think I started feeling like maybe A, B, C, D, F might be a little better in that it allows for more distinction, but there a couple things. One: those do translate into number grades by the DOE scale, so that’s really just a way to give number grades without giving number grades. [Two:] the longer this goes on and the more people are affected by this, teachers [and] students, the idea that we can draw those meaningful distinctions just feels silly to me. I wouldn’t favor that; I would favor E, S, N, U.

Francesca McAuliffe

I don’t know. I guess the letter grades seem the most-college grades to me, but I wouldn’t say that I necessarily prefer it. In this situation, I also think that a range or a letter grade would be better than number grades, but there are people who are trying to get into competitive schools, so does that range show the difference between someone who may have earned a 97 or a lower score in the 90s, and does that make the difference? I’m not really sure. A Pass-Fail seems too broad, so it would be more of the excellent, which is similar to what we’ve done in the first marking period or the college letter range.

Thomas Miner, Pass-Fail

It’s complicated because I think [there are] some juniors who are going to be applying for college in the next twelve months who are doing very well and want their transcript to reflect that. They are maintaining above 90s, and I get that they should be rewarded for that. However, I think in general, if we had to pick one system that is blanket for everyone, I would say pass-fail. I think everyone should get pass-fail because it’s just such an extraordinary circumstance. I don’t know if it would be possible for the default to be pass-fail but then have some students pick and choose what classes they would want to have number grades be reflected in.

It’s so hard as a teacher. It’s hard to maintain that regular grading policy which includes stuff like participation, which I think is really hard to evaluate in this distance learning. It’s hard to give assessments that are really reflective of exactly of what students know because I can't monitor what students’ resources are. If I give them a test or a quiz, I don’t know if they’re using their notes, or if they happen to be Google-ing, so it’s hard for me as a teacher to know exactly where their grade should be, based on the grading policy that I have and the way that I have to assess students virtually, and I think that it’s really hard to do high-quality work when you’re trapped inside. I think everyone should just get pass/fail. It’s just hard to expect students to perform at the level that they otherwise would be if we were in regular classes.

Thomas Strasser, Pass-Fail

First, in the situation we’re in, Pass/Fail is just the fairest system. Plenty of people are sick already, and it’s obvious that even more will get sick. I know that some of my students have family members that they need to take care of, either because they’re just sick or because of COVID-19. I know a lot of my students have to watch their siblings. A lot of the younger siblings need help, and many of my students, being the oldest sibling, have to take care of their younger siblings, spending hours a day teaching their siblings. It’s just not fair to those students to give grades when they’re at a severe disadvantage. You shouldn’t be at a disadvantage just because you have siblings, over someone who [doesn’t have] siblings and has more time to study.

Another issue is that number grades are unfair since people have anxiety if they have sick family members, and they’re more worried about their family than about grades. You shouldn’t be at a disadvantage if you happen to have somebody who is sick or you are sick. Not everyone has the same chance to access technology you might not have internet access. If you have siblings, you might have to share the computer you have at home. You might only be able to access the internet via your phone. It is just not fair. Some people are in a better situation than others, based on resources [and] the family situation, and that shouldn’t go into grades. My classes don’t have any real tests, and the only thing I count is what you do online, and some students can’t do as much as others.

Honestly, I cannot give grades on a numerical scale. I see students doing their work, and I trust that they are actually doing it themselves, but then again, I have no way to really check. It would be hypocritical to say that I can differentiate between a 93 and a 94, or a 85 and a 90, because I don’t have enough data.

Matthew Polazzo, Pass-Fail

My feeling is that it should be pass/fail. No matter what solution we come up with somebody is going to get screwed. I understand that for some juniors that can be really bad. In a perfect world, you let students pick. But that would be a problem; you can never assume good things about admission officers. One compromise is ESNU.

I just feel like it’s a freaking pandemic. I have a student who was crying today. I have students who are physically fine but emotionally traumatized. I have students whose parents are sick. The sirens never stop. Some people’s family members are working in hospitals. To me, it just feels like we shouldn’t have kids worry about their academics at this time. I do think it’s fine for classes to still be happening; it’s a good distraction. I just feel like its wrong for kids to be super stressed out for grades at this time. I know the DOE policy prevents going to pass/fail in the middle of the term. But we are in the middle of a pandemic, so hopefully the DOE will change that policy. I do know that no matter what we do, people at Stuy are gonna be unhappy. They will be writing long, angry Facebook posts about it, and other people will be writing long, angry Facebook posts rebutting them. At the end of the day, pass/fail is the best option.

Katherine Fletcher, E/S/N/U

I wish we could do ESNU, that would be my preference. One problem is that almost all of the so-called letter grade systems end up corresponding to a number. Its like “I’m giving you an A, but that will be averaged as a 95,” so why not just give the students a 95? If I were in charge, I would be inclined to either do ESNU that does not get translated into a number grade and nobody’s GPA is affected negatively or positively this semeter or pass fail. [And] the GPA would not be affected at all this semester. [The] problem with that is I worry a little bit that student investment is just going to plummet. [Why] put forth your best effort if you are just going to try to pass?

Michael Orlando, A+/A/A-

I think there is a really good argument to be made for a pass/fail. There is a really good argument for an A+/A/A- system. I don’t know the asnwer between which one is better. If I [were] king of the DOE, and I could do whatever we want, I would have us on the A+/A/A- system. Where I have an issue is the idea that 97 and a 96 show a difference between a students’ performance in that class. There is no difference. My understanding is that if we do ESNU they would still attach numbers to it. [...] If we do anything other than pass/fail, the DOE requires us to stick a number on it.

Brian Sterr, A/B/C/D/F

In the survey sent out to students and staff, there were three non-numerical systems. Two of them were basically the same, just with different letters: E/G/S/N/U and A/B/C/D/F, both with pluses and minuses. Personally, I would be more in favor of a non-numerical system, but these two systems, as presented with the pluses and minuses come out to basically be the same as our usual grading system. Because they are being translated into numerical grades to be averaged, I did not see any advantage to using them, and in fact, I felt there were significant disadvantages. The fact that the maximum grade you can receive is 98, for example, or the fact that there is a 5 point gap between B+ (88) and A- (93). I don't think these systems would have relieved any stress for students or for teachers, and it would be hard to get used to for just this one term.

I am not opposed to pass/fail, but I think that students who have continued to work very hard this semester might feel a bit cheated that all of their effort just turns into a pass. Of course, we're trying to see what makes the most sense for the entire student body, so this might be the most fair option. Over the long term, if students knew it was going to be pass/fail, there are definitely students who would try to take advantage and do the bare minimum to earn the pass. Why work hard if your grade and the top student's grade will be the same? I know the majority of our students are dedicated and would still put in the time and the effort and would work hard to learn and to prepare for next semester or college classes, but there would be a few that subscribe to that line of thinking.

It is unfortunate that these were our only options. I have heard one teacher suggest giving students the option to take the grade they earned in our regular system or translate it to a pass. I like this idea for the students because they can choose which makes the most sense for them. If they have had a particularly stressful semester due to COVID-19, the freedom to take the unaveraged pass could be very helpful. On the other hand, from the teachers' perspective, this means still being able to come up with a detailed grade, so this system would not relieve any of the stress of teachers.

For teachers, a more simplified system would mean less worry about how to try to assess students fairly at home, when they have access to the internet, books, [and] other resources during any assessments they take. This might be less of an issue for courses that depend on essays and projects, since those are largely done at home anyway, and there are good methods of identifying blatant plagiarism, for example.

My personal choice, if I could pick it would be to use A, B, C, D, F, but with no numerical equivalent. Don't average this semester at all, but put the letter on the transcript to give a general idea of the student's performance. The lack of a numerical equivalent would alleviate the stress of how this semester will affect GPAs; the reduced number of grades makes it a simpler system; and I think [it] would work out to the students' benefits. A teacher, when thinking if a student deserves an 88 or a 90, for example, might have no trouble picking the lower grade. But now if you're deciding B or A, I think the student would likely end up with the A rather than the B. This is basically a pass/fail system in the sense that grades aren't averaged, but it gives a bit more information than just whether the student did the bare minimum to pass or was relatively on par with the rest of the grades they have earned. (I like A, B, C, D, F because any college or anyone else looking at it knows what those mean. Anyone from outside of Stuy would probably need a key to even know what order E, S, N, U come in, and if they're looking through hundreds of transcripts, [they] might simply not bother figuring out what they mean).

Eric Contreras, E/S/N/U with CR/NC

Like everything else at Stuyvesant, there's a wide range of opinions, and students have not been averse to e-mailing me their opinions on both sides of this narrative [...]. But the number of requests for either letter or pass/fail grades has been greater, so it’s an interesting lens for me to see.

I asked the DOE for permission to consider not having numerical grades, and that’s one of three things; it’s either pass/fail, ESNU or EGSNU, and ABCDF. I asked the DOE to allow me the space to consider alternatives to numeric grades for the third marking period. The DOE’s initial response to me was ‘schools may not change their grading scale midyear.’ […] they sent a subsequent email saying, ‘given the challenges of the pandemic, we cannot follow the policy that has been in place as is.’

If we use ESNU or ABCDF in the third marking period, then we have to use the DOE’s version of using them, which equal a number. […] we use ESNU as a range, they use it as a specific equivalency numerically. What I’m asking for is one, can I go to any form of letter grade, ESNU, or ABCD, and [two,] can I disconnect if from GPA?

The place of potential compromise is ESNU with no connection to GPA […] and letting it be a qualitative value. So [the default is] ESNU, and for cases [when] school counselors have identified extenuating circumstances, that we allow CR or NC, credit or no credit. But this is an evolving process for me because I haven’t heard back from the DOE whether I’ll be granted permission to even engage in a conversation.